20TH Century Guitar Interview by Jude Hibler
Randy Dorman
Segueing from Country to Jazz
by Jude Hibler
By its very nature, improvisational music lends itself to
boundless expressions. Bach has long been regarded as one of the true
Masters of the improvisational technique. In fact, I believe it was
the great bass player, Charlie Mingus, who once said, paraphrased,
that all Bach needed to be a swinging improviser was a rhythm section!
Writers and editors receive many press kits every week. After
many years of filling both roles, glancing at the return address to
see which jazz label or publicity firm has sent something becomes
second nature. Nashville is not generally thought of as a place where
many jazz recordings originate.
This past summer, I did receive a press kit from Nashville.
After doing a double take, I checked to see if it had been addressed
to me and/or my company, Jazz Link Enterprises. It had been. And to
both. With my curiosity piqued, I opened the attractive package.
Staring at me was a very handsome man with, what I called, a
cowboy hat on his head. While there is some country music that I like
very much, I was not expecting to see this kind of attire on a person
who had sent a CD to Jazz Link Enterprises.
After scolding myself for being a snob, I pulled the CD out of
its case and thought, well, at least I can listen to it. Am I glad I
did.
Guitarist/songwriter/arranger Randy Dorman may not be known in
jazz circles, yet, but should be. He plays with what many musicians,
in any genre, seem to lack: passion. He is not afraid to write or play
beautiful songs. His sense of melody, harmony and interpretation
harken to the days of lush song presentations.
For the last 24 years, he has been working in the band of the
legendary singer and musician, Kenny Rogers. Rogers is the owner of
the label, Dreamcatcher, which released Dorman's new CD, No
Boundaries.
Said Randy Dorman of his recent release: "Realizing that my new
CD, No Boundaries, is coming out of a predominately country town,
Nashville, on a country label, Dreamcatcher, I am very, very grateful
for Kenny Rogers, who owns the record label, and Jim Mazza, who is
President/CEO and oversees the record company. They believe in me
enough to even allow me to produce my own CD, while they foot the bill
for it as Executive Producers.
"When I was recording No Boundries, at one point, my boss, Kenny
Rogers, was lying on the floor with a camera shooting me. It was
surreal! I couldn't get over it.
"I like the name, No Boundaries. There are a lot of CDs out
there with that title, but this one has a particular fondness for me
because I don't feel that jazz has a lot of boundaries either.
"By being original material, the music on the CD has no
boundaries. I can freely express myself. The record company was
gracious enough to allow me to do so without any input as to how to
produce this album. That doesn't happen at all," he laughed.
- The Early Years -
Born in Uvalde, Texas, he was raised for the first four years of
his life in Hondo, Texas, which is located in the southern part of
Texas. "My father was a flight instructor. We lived all over Texas
because of that and ended up in San Angelo in 1966. San Angelo became
home and my folks have been there ever since."
Listening to the music of Duke Ellington, Glenn Miller, Tommy
Dorsey, Count Basie, as well as many other big band orchestras, came
to young Randy through his parents' love for that music. As well, they
had an extensive record collection.
"When I was growing up, all of these bands were a part of our
musical backdrop. Many a night, I would go to sleep listening to those
albums. Then I started gravitating to the guitar players like George
Van Eps, Joe Pass, Herb Ellis.
"When I went to North Texas State University, another student
there had taken from Joe Pass and Johnny Smith. I was intrigued by my
friend's style. We formed a duet.
"At that time, I didn't own a 7-string guitar so I reversed my E
and my A strings on my guitar to play it in a 7-string style.
"My friend was playing the lead lines and I played rhythm. I
spoke with George Van Eps at one time on the phone to try to get a
little bit more insight into the instrument." Randy's first 7-string
guitar was a Jackson, made by a luthier who owned a guitar store,
Showbud, in Nashville. Dorman had met him via Roy Clark.
- From Superman to Roy Rogers to Kenny Rogers -
For a 7-year-old, Randy had the excruciatingly difficult
decision to make: would he like a Roy Rogers guitar or a Superman
costume?
"When I was 7, my parents gave me the choice to get a Roy Rogers
guitar or a Superman costume." At 7, Superman was more of a hero to
Dorman than Roy Rogers so he chose the costume. Two years later, that
changed.
"My brother fell out of a swing and broke his arm at a camp when
we were kids. The doctors suggested that he exercise his fingers.
Since he was interested in guitar at that time, my parents bought him
a Silvertone guitar. They broke out the little cast area where his
fingers were so he could exercise them.
"When I was nine, I took his guitar and a little chord book he
had, sneaked off to the bedroom, and started learning how to play the
chords. I 'wrote' my first song when I was nine," he laughed.
Learning to read music came a few years later when he was in the
seventh and eighth grades. "I played the clarinet in the junior high
and high school bands. I transferred that knowledge to the guitar, but
during my junior year in high school, I did take guitar lessons from
Lee Trevino in San
Angelo.
"He taught me for six or seven months. He'd give me the lessons
and I'd take them home. Then I'd start arranging them. He finally told
my parents that basically he couldn't teach me anymore because I was
already beyond what he was capable of teaching.
"I never had anymore formal lessons after that. "One gentleman
who helped me round out my understanding of chordal structures and
other things was Dave Pennock. "He was the high school assistant
band director, but he also headed up the stage or jazz band for the
high school. He took me under his wing and taught me college theory
when I was in high school. He gravitated towards me, for whatever
reason, and another teacher was my theory teacher in high school. She
said her classes were never the same when I and two of my buddies left
her class. We were like the Three Musketeers. We always had something
goofy going on. She had a lot of fun with us," more laughter.
While the clarinet had been used as a way to get into jazz
bands, that instrument did not hold his interest as the guitar did.
Following high school, Dorman attended North Texas State
University for one year. "The year I was there, there was no jazz
guitar program set up.
"They did have a program in place for classical guitar. At the
time, I remember thinking that that was pretty dumb - I'm going to a
jazz college with no jazz class for the guitar.
"But I am very grateful I took the classical guitar class
because that helped expand my ability to write; to appreciate other
forms of music, and to expand the boundary-less side of jazz.
"I point toward Night Wind as that result. That song has a very
classical overtone to it. It's a piece I wrote for two guitars and
bass." Dorman plays all three parts, beautifully. Bach would be proud.
"I learned early on that speed was not going to be my forte.
There are so many players that have technique out the ying-yang and
can play circles around me - -speedwise. So I opted to go kind of in
the Joe Pass scenario ala the bass, rhythm, chord line, structures,
and chordal passages - - to create my music. That's where the harmonic
structure comes in, along with all the instructions I had from my
teachers.
"The classical guitar class revealed a lot of open string things
I wasn't used to, for I was using closed chords at that time."
One of the attractions for his music that led me to ask him for
an interview was that he lets his music breathe. Instead of filling in
every ounce of space with a zillion notes, he makes the space become
an anticipatory device in building tension, which is then released by
the next textural idea.
That Randy Dorman does not feel the need to fill in everything
with a rush of flurries is, indeed, much more rare than it should be
among jazz musicians. It is, by far, more difficult to accomplish than
it is to just learn how to play fast, without saying anything musical.
Joining him on this CD are keyboards/pianist Warren Hartman,
electric bassist Chuck Jacobs, and drummer Lynn Hammann. Harmonica
player Pat Bergeson gives a gorgeously haunting solo on You Looked So
Beautiful.
I was fortunate enough to catch up with Warren and Lynn for
their thoughts about Randy. Please read what they said,following this
story.
Check out Randy's website at
www.randydorman.com. His CDs
are available there and at amazon.com. He has four independent albums
titled Stardust; Through the Years - An Instrumental Tribute to Kenny
Rogers; I Will Always Love You, and Unforgettable.
- The Blindfold Test -
Ever since jazz historian, Leonard Feather, began his Blindfold
test column in 1952 in Down Beat magazine, which continues to run in
that magazine today, jazz aficionados try to identify the music and
players whenever they hear a recording.
Knowing this to be the case for my business partner, guitarist
Dale Bruning, I set him up. I knew he had not yet heard Randy's
playing. I had Randy's No Boundaries CD playing when Dale came to my
office one day.
After listening to a few bars of music, Dale asked me who was
playing. With tongue-in-cheek, I told him he should recognize the
player and to give it a bit more of a listen. At the end of two songs,
Dale shook his head and said he could not identify the player, but
that he was really good. Coming from one of the true jazz masters,
this was high praise, indeed.
In relating my actions to Randy, Dale's subsequent reaction, and
laughing at my rascality in telling Dale that he should "know" who was
playing, Randy continued his career story by saying:
"In September, I will have been playing for 24 years behind one
of the superstars of all time: Kenny Rogers. One of the difficult
things for an entertainer to learn is what is appropriate for an
audience. By studying under him, as a sideman, I owe a great deal to
Kenny as to knowing what an audience can take.
"I also take that Chet Atkins approach as well: don't get too
far from the melody and you'll keep your audience. Make it musical,
but make it from your heart at the same time.
"That's what I've tried to do. Just share my heart with the
recording industry and now, hopefully, to the public."
- Kenny Rogers on Randy Dorman -
'He never ceases to amaze me. Every night on stage I wonder at
his talent and his ability to shift gears musically. My biggest fear
is that we'll make him a star and he'll leave me. I do wish him the
best within those parameters,' wrote Kenny Rogers about Randy.
Although I did not have the good fortune to interview Mr.
Rogers, I found my admiration and respect for him growing as a person.
That his talent is huge is without question. That his love of music is
without question.
The only important test about any person is in how well each one
measures up to that of being kind, considerate, respectful, and
genuinely happy for the successes others receive. From all accounts of
his friends, who happen to be his band members, Kenny Rogers receives
the highest marks possible.
"With Kenny Rogers, what you see is what you get. He's the same
person off stage as he is on. There is nothing phony about him," said
Randy.
"If you work with a superstar like I have for 24 years, he puts
himself in the seat with the audience and determines how much they can
take. That's kind of the approach I take, too. He always says to be a
singer, you have to have a Top 10 hit. I think that's a very viable
thing. You always have a chance of being vulnerable with the public.
"You may have a CD they like and then come out with another one
that they don't like. It's iffy at best. But if you're an
'entertainer,' you get through that somehow and go on to the next
project.
"Musicians should be entertainers. A lot of them aren't. I
believe that the audience helps to give you the outlet for your music
and should be appreciated by the musician for appreciating your
music."
Dorman has worked behind such stars as Ray Charles, Smokey
Robinson, Garth Brooks, Dolly Parton, Willie Nelson, Trisha Yearwood,
Kenny Loggins, Gladys Knight, Faith Hill, The Oakridge Boys and George
Burns, among others.
Other instrumentalists have influenced his perception of music
and how he performs it. "Duke Ellington certainly has. Wynton Marsalis
is doing a similar thing. He is really educated in the whole history
of jazz. That is where I fall short. I just love the music, the sound.
"I like Chick Corea and people like him are way beyond what I'm
capable of, like odd time signatures and the like. I knew that
wouldn't be my forte."
It seems not to matter, however, to the Randy Dorman fans. At
his No Boundaries CD release party this past summer, some 450 people
turned out. Among some of the more notable attendees were Tommy
Newsome from Johnny Carson's Tonight Show Band and Johnny Mathis.
- The Boys in the Band -
Not coincidently, the musicians working with Dorman on No
Boundaries are people he has been working with for many years in Kenny
Rogers' band.
"The musicians on my CD I have worked with for about ten years.
Chuck Jacobs, the bass player, has come out of a jazz background.
[Drummer] Lynn Hammann came through a variety of artists before coming
to Kenny. I'm just overwhelmed by the musicality of the guys I work
with. Sometimes Kenny's audiences don't really get to appreciate their
ability to the extent of what they are capable of doing.
"It's kind of cool to expand Kenny's audiences and what they are
exposed to.
"Warren Hartman, who plays keys, is one of those guys who also
has that inner heart for his music and he's an incredible arranger. He
always gives freedom to the rest of us musicians with his arrangements
so we can shine a little bit here and there. I really gravitate
towards Warren. I think we have a like-mindedness in structures and
chords and parts.
"My friend Pat Bergeson was out with us as an opening act. He
used to work with Lyle Lovitt. Pat is one of those unique guys who
plays two-style harmonica, but he plays it on the regular marine band
harmonica. He overplays the instrument to get his wonderful, melodic
sound.
"I just love Pat's depth. He's a phenomenal guitar player, too.
A phenomenal harmonica player. We have a brotherly love-friend
relationship. I think we complement each other in our different
styles.
"One other person I'd like to mention is Frank V. Farrell. He
was our engineer. He went way beyond what was required because he
loved the project. He's a drummer himself and very knowledgable. He
knows the computer and all the technical side of things that most
musicians don't know. Without him, the CD project would not have been
as together as it is."
There is a camaraderie among these musicians that has to be
present in order to make the music work. There is never room for
jealousy or pettiness, as they impede the goal of making the best
possible music. The listener gets that feeling of harmony from both
the musicians and the high regard they have for each other.
Working on a story involving conversations with more than one
person gives a writer a balanced perspective of the kind of enthusiasm
each player brings to a project. Writing this story was a joy because
of the enthusiasm of Randy himself, as well as Warren and Lynn, and
the
written comments from Kenny Rogers.
Randy Dorman's large talent is like a breath of fresh air. Do
yourself a favor and listen to this man's music. He makes the segue
from country to jazz to classical to whatever else there is for him to
explore, seamless. He is a modern day musical explorer. A musical
journey with him knows No Boundaries.
[Jude Hibler and partner Dale Bruning can be reached at
info@jazzlinkenterprises.com;
www.jazzlinkenterprises.com or by calling 303-776-1764.]
Warren Hartman
- About Randy Dorman -
"Randy just has an almost incredible sense of melody: how to
play melody, how to hear melody. He shapes melody so naturally that
it's amazing. That's the thing I note the most about him.
"For instance, when I need to have something played, I want to
hear it; I want to hear the melody against the chords, I'll go to him
everytime. Even a vocal thing. I'll just have him play the melody
because he realizes it, in a way, that's like singing. That's my big
thumbs up for Randy," said long time friend Warren Hartman,
pianist/keyboards and composer.
Historically, very often piano players and guitar players are
not musically compatible. Because both instruments are used chordally,
as well as soloists, they can easily get in each other's way when one
is soloing and the other is supposed to be accompanying.
Because this type of history has produced strong rivalries,
receiving the kind of praise Warren gave Randy is even more rewarding.
"You try to find a wavelength that you can get on. In that
regard, Randy is absolutely a piece of cake. When you are both cut
from the same piece of wood, more or less, you kind of give each other
the breath that you need. That's why playing with him is a lot of fun.
He's a good one.
"What also amazes me is that he is much more of a prolific
writer than I thought he was. I knew he had some material prepared for
his latest record deal. Then he came up with a few other things and
put them together. But after that, this creative plug came out and
boom! Out comes another twelve songs. That's a lot! A lot! I was happy
to see that happen with him. I just wish him the best.
"I appreciate that you're interviewing him. It's giving him a
little lift."
- About Warren Hartman -
St. Louis was Warren's hometown. It is noted for such jazz
luminaries as Oliver Nelson, pianist Ray Kennedy, who is heard on John
Pizzarelli's CDs, and Ray's brother, bassist Tom Kennedy, among
others.
"When I hear Ray, I think, 'Where did this come from?' He is so
talented. He is unreal."
How does a jazz player, then, come into Kenny Rogers Band? "I
was floating around on the outskirts of music in L.A. I just finally
got tired of the Assistant Restaurant Manager Syndrome, because that
is primarily where you'd work. You can't make a living playing jazz.
I'm not really a jazz player, anyway.
"I stopped doing that and a friend of mine was a drummer in this
band. I told him if it ever happens that there's an opening, give me a
holler. I thought, however, this is not going to happen, but what the
heck?
"But it did. I auditioned about ten years ago and I got the job.
Financially, it's been life-changing, having steady income," he
laughed.
Warren, too, is a songwriter. He, Kenny Rogers and Steve
Glassmeyer wrote the lush song, You Looked So Beautiful, which is on
Randy's No Boundaries CD.
"I was at Kenny's farm one day and we had that melody going on.
Two or three things came out on that session. One of them was real
country, kind of a waltz; the other was kind of rock, and then there
was this one.
"I think Kenny was full of love for the woman who would become
his wife. He was looking for any way he could to express his love for
her."
Lynn Hammann
- About Randy Dorman -
"What I notice about Randy is that his writing impresses me as
much as his playing does. For a drummer, it's easy to come up with a
part because everything is logical, it's musical, the melodies are
easy to latch onto.
"When I worked with him on it, I had an easy time creating a
drum part. It wasn't always easy to play because the music was a
challenge. But there was a melody you could hang on to that kind of
wrote the part for itself, which I think is a sign of a good writer.
When you have to struggle to much for a part, for me, it means that
maybe the song isn't thought out well enough. Like not connecting the
dots as well as it should.
"His soloing has always knocked us out, all of us in the band.
He's such a strong soloist in any genre. He could do the George Benson
thing and sing along with his songs and then do the straight bebop
thing. He is very musical and creative."
Lynn has been with Kenny Rogers for 14 years. "I had been in two
bands who opened up for Kenny. The first was for singer Susan Anton,
who was signed with NBC. We opened for Kenny for a whole year.
"Then I was with Frankie Vallie and the Four Seasons. We
happened to fill in for Dolly Parton for two weeks. She and Kenny were
doing a show together and she had to cancel.
"When the drummer job became available, I was one of the guys
who auditioned for Kenny's band and was fortunate enough to get it.
It's as simple as that."
With the exception of the second guitar player, who has been in
Roger's band for a few months, the other band members have a combined
longevity with Rogers of more than three-fourths of a century. That
does not happen unless the employer is great to work for. In Kenny
Rogers case, this certainly seems to be true.
Listening to each of the three men to whom I spoke for this
story was like listening to an echo of their sentiments about Rogers.
Said Lynn, "Kenny is a bass player. He used to play bass in the Bobby
Doyle Trio, a jazz vocal trio. They did a kind of Four Freshmen
vocal-type trio of that day. Kenny played stand-up bass. Bobby Doyle
is an excellent pianist.
"Kenny has his roots there and that's what he has always liked
Randy for. Randy has those jazz roots and Kenny really identified with
that.
"Randy's music has a nice melody to hang on to and you just had
to embellish what was there. Complement what was there. But he can
write things, too, that are very challenging for a drummer. A couple
things he's writing now that aren't on the CD are a little more
involved with some time signature changes. That will take a little
more thinking on my part," he laughed.
"Randy has a real solid foundation in the bebop/jazz world that
I'm envious of, to be frank," Lynn laughed again. "I'm the kind of
player who can play a lot of styles, but I wish I had a stronger
foundation in the jazz idiom than I do.
"Many's the time when Randy is practicing in his room when Kenny
would walk in, sit down, listen to him and then compliment him when he
was done. He'd say something to the effect that, 'Boy, I wish I could
play as well as you do.'
Kenny is genuinely behind Randy and admires his talent."
- About Lynn Hammann -
Lynn worked with Buddy Greco from 1978-1980 in California.
"Buddy is a heck of a piano player. He can do the Art Tatum thing. He
is something."
Later, he worked with singer Steve March, Mel Tormé's son.
Originally from Southern Illinois, he played in the St. Louis area.
He grew up in a small farming community and went to school at Southern
Illinois University in (1970-71) Edwardsville, which is across the
river from St. Louis. The band he was in had to play all kinds of
music.
It was here that he heard some of the greats in jazz, like Sarah
Vaughan and Lou Rawls, who would work in the main room.<>< <>< <><
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